55 thoughts on - CentOS 7 Docs, Tutorials, Etc…

• Someone had mentioned on this list the following RedHat Enterprise 7 (and as you know CentOS is binary replica of RedHat Enterprise with replaced art work):

  https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/7/html/System_Administrators_Guide/part-Basic_System_Configuration.html

  This covers CentOS 7 system administration sufficiently well for me (but I
  work with Linux and Unix for over 1.5 decades…).

  The documentation you have found for older systems is imminently different. The following is _MY_ opinion which should not be confused for consensus on this list. The truth is that with release 7 RedHat made a big step away from being “Unix-like” system towards “M$ Windows-like”. Which is regretful, as this is not the first step, yet the most prominent one. So, if you decided to walk away from Windows, after you master Linux (or maybe simultaneously with starting it), take a look at Unix successors such as FreeBSD (most suitable for servers IMHO, some may recommend OpenBSD for servers, my preference is FreeBSD), NetBSD (most rich with what is ported to build and run on it), PC-BSD – based on FreeBSD, yet made easiest to install workstation whith GUI interface (X11) support.

  Just my $0.02

  Valeri

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  Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247
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• so if I buy RHEL 7 books everything should work as in the book? part of the problem for me is that there aren’t many books about CentOS, and the ones I found are a few years old I understand, but this is primarily for servers for emails, web, etc., and it is my understanding that CentOS is one of the better distributions for that kind of stuff.

  Thank you for your 2 :)

• I would say, CentOS 6 is the best of Linuxes suitable for server (IMHO). However, I for one decided to move my servers away from Linux (as from
  “Unix-like” Linux gradually becomes “Windows-like” during last 5 years or so). Since some time ago I do not upgrade Linux systems on servers I
  maintain. Instead, when the time comes, I just migrate server from Linux to FreeBSD, which is much more suitable platform for server than Linux. Version 7 of RedHat Enterprise or CentOS is much worse than version 6 to build server on. Again, this is just my humble opinion. If I absolutely have to build server on today’s latest Linux, I will choose Debian, which at least doesn’t have systemd yet. But it will have it in next release…

  Again, this is just $0.02 worth of my own opinion, definitely not a consensus (and likely not even a majority opinion) on this list.

  Valeri

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  Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247
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• What changes have you seen that affect using CentOS as a server? Sure, the GUI has changed over the years to be more like Windows, but most of my servers don’t even have a GUI installed. I have servers running CentOS 4, 5, 6, and 7. The only differences I can think of between 4
  and 7 that affect server administration are selinux and systemd.
  Selinux can be easily disabled if you don’t want to deal with it. I
  don’t like systemd at the moment, but that’s at least partially due to only having worked with it for a couple of weeks so far. The more I use it, the more I get used to it. So far, it seems easy enough to use once you figure out the new commands and file locations.

• Interesting. I built my CentOS 7 server with a raid 1 mirror. I found the raid setup in the installer to be confusing and very non-intuitive.
  I don’t remember having any problems with it in previous versions.

• Just your humble opinion, but how do you insist and repeat it :-)

• Do you run bhyve virtualisation on any of your migrated FreeBSD hosts?

• as for my humble opinion:

  I’ve looked into systemd in the past 24 hours and I find it as a refreshing update to Linux, and I welcome the fact that Linux is becoming a little more Windows-like.

  whatever your opinion about Windows may be — you can’t argue its huge worldwide success and impact.

  as long as you don’t compromise security and/or performance, making Linux more like Windows is a good thing IMO.

• There you have it!

  M$ Windows is the only OS (and I knew quite a few of the past and know quite a few of present) whose creators tell you you can not safely run it without 3rd part software (anti-virus)…

  Valeri

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  Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247
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• No, at the moment I run services in FreeBSD jails. Even a single host sometimes lives in several jails (say: web server, shell login, mail,… go to different jails). But don’t confuse me for an expert here…

  Valeri

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  Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247
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• that’s exactly why my next statement read:

• I guess the decision then was the bloody one … ;-)

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  Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247
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• Jails are great. Although we had this great setup that worked up to 9.2
  with jails on nullfs (that is, a bunch of jails sharing a template) that from 9.3 (maybe) and 10.0 (definitely) require an rc.local script to mount devfs. Valeri, if your FreeBSD systems are on 9.2 or below, check out my page at http://srobb.net/nullfsjail.html

  From what I’ve heard (I’m at a primarily FreeBSD shop, though we are a 2nd level CentOS mirror) bhyve is a bit behind. DISCLAIMER!!! I haven’t investigated it. I don’t believe it’s yet capable of running Windows.

  Jails are more like OpenVZ and Vserver, a more sophisticated chroot.

• Thanks for the reference. I follow FreeBSD Handbook, sorry I only looked through your link without careful reading… but it looks pretty close to what I do by following Handbook. But thanks anyway. I guess, we need to move this discussion away from this list before we are banned (and rightfully so as this is irrelevant to CentOS Linux…).

  Valeri

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  Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247
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• that?) there was no antivirus worth talking about and no concern about security as such. The Shellshock exploit probably does two things. Firstly it raises awareness of many admins as regards security of Linux systems and it encourages hackers because they realise that there is now (and actually always has been) a target in Linux systems. It may be Linux’s “Code Red”. There are definitely more exploits out there.

  Not all Linux admins are security aware, just as many are not backup aware. Many think that Linux systems are secure by default. Many will “get around to security” some time.

  Cheers,

  Cliff

• Windows has included a decent A/V system, variously called Microsoft Security Essentials, and Microsoft Defender for the last several major releases.

  any other fables?

• Please roll the time back and change it from “IS” to “was for over decade which changed just a year or two ago”.

  Not yet, but I’m inventive.

  BTW, the whole idea of “antivirus” is flawed. It is based on “enumerate bad”. You can’t, as one never knows what will be invented in a future. Good approach would be: enumerate good and ban everything else. Which we usually do when configuring firewalls. Selinux (even though I have different opinion about its usefulness) uses this not flawed approach
  (consider this my next fable).

  Valeri

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  Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247
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• actually, I think that the anti-virus that comes with Windows is only available for desktop OSs like Windows 7, and not available for the Server OSs like 2008 R2.

• I agree, but I don’t know what else you can put in the hands of the novice, unless its the iPhone world of corporate approved apps only purchased through a monopoly ‘app store’.

• Which simply means: Only ‘Government Approved’ viruses allowed.

• Looks like I need my tin foil hat

• Excellent point. Windows 95 was designed to be accessible by the USA
  authorities. USA anti-virus software “allows” access from the USA
  authorities.

  Remember M$’s “3 knocks” and you are in Windoze software ?

  The greater the difference between (Windoze, Lindoze etc.) and Linux the better.

  I am sure M$ could have designed a much more secure operating system:
  But it didn’t. Hence the success of superior non-Windoze operating systems. Keeping Linux pure from the Windoze influence is essential even if it means upsetting systemd fans :-)

• Really, you have some URL

• Well, that’s the problem with closed source systems (Which MS Windows is and commercial antiviruses for it are). One can claim something and there is no way to prove it is right or it is wrong (or left? ;-)

  I remember some clever person said: “security can only be in open source”. There are systems that are not [quite] open source, even though they are based on open source. I may be out of date but some time ago (last time I
  cared to check) Android was not (even though it is based on Linux kernel, there is fair chunk of closed code in its kernel). Everybody is free to imagine me with tin foil hat on, or with pointy hat on…

  Valeri

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  Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247
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• So claim made, nothing to back it up. Got it.

  all I need to say is

• That suggests I’ve been around a lot longer than you and appear, with some subjects, to know a little more than you. Many things happened when the Internet was in its infancy and before Google, then funded by the USA government, started.

  You’ll be telling me next Google didn’t give USD 50 million to Mozilla. There may have been other payments. The default setting of Firefox is to give Google every URL the user types-in. Google is the biggest spying operation in the world, apart from the USA military and related agencies.

  Have a pleasant weekend.

  —
  Regards,

  Paul. England, EU.

• I doubt you have been around longer than me, but not the point, nice distraction though.

  I know quite well about google/Mozilla, yawn, old news, but if you are unwilling (or unable) to back up what you claim then I have no choice but to call out a BS

• The default setting for Android is to give Google all your passwords including Wifi ones. In Europe Google sent motor vehicles, in the guise of photographing every premise in every street, whilst secretly sniffing everyone’s WiFi equipment.

  I long for the day when CentOS can replace Google on Android tablets.

  —
  Regards,

  Paul. England, EU.

• Oh as a side note, that suggests nothing other than back up what you claim.

• You obviously didn’t. Perhaps one day you may discover what others know today.

• I see, so you can

• Call me what you wish. That is definitely not going to change the truth and reality. Have a nice evening.

  —
  Regards,

  Paul. England, EU.

• And you can make all the claims you want, without being willing to back them up.

• Nice examples. One-sided though. All software has bugs. You prefer security through obscurity (closed source, and you have to _trust_ the vendor of it). But there are numerous security issues with closed source M$ Windows system. Of course, you would prefer closed source example UNIX. Here it goes: SSH (as opposed to openSSH we all have thanks to OpenBSD
  project). There was an awful security hole in it about 13 years ago and as sshd daemon runs by user root, we were just waiting if stray root just will walk into our Solaris boxes. Waiting for parch from system vendor and simultaneously compiling openssh as a replacement. Those of us who had majority of boxes under Linux (hence with openssh that wasn’t vulnerable)
  had less trouble…

  I guess, you go you to your church, and I will go to mine. I do not consider “security through obscurity” a security. I prefer not to wreck my brain thinking “to what extent can I trust this corporate vendor”. I
  prefer the code put out into open so everybody can review it. I doesn’t mean that open source code will be audited diligently. But the fact that it can be gives the best reassurance for me. I do join that clever person who said “security only can be in open source”.

  Valeri

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  Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247
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• Not at all, and please don

• No, I’m happy and not offended at all. And it turns out we do pretty much the same thing. I do use closed source wherever it does the job, and for tasks that are not cover by open source. Some closed source software is great. But wherever I do want to save brain figuring out what to use for the task that has highest demands in security… you already know my answer.

  Valeri

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  Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247
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• Then we are pretty much in agreement here, regarding the claims made by the other member of the list, I do think if you are going to make a claim and state it as if it is fact, you should back it up

• Keep in mind CentOS is a rebuild of RHEL so any resources for RHEL are applicable to CentOS.

  I’m not sure if any EL7 books have been written yet (as it’s fairly new and the Red Hat certifications have only just started being updated).

  In the meanwhile one of the best resources is access.redhat.com … read the documentation there.

• it’s very difficult to find up-to-date books on the subject, but yes, the docs on https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/7/
  are so far really good.

  it’s all just very confusing for someone without Linux experience. all the docs/tutorials/examples out there are for previous versions so they are all out of date now that RHEL/CentOS 7 uses systemd.

  also, the relationship between the OS, Gnome, and KDE is confusing. I
  installed CentOS 7 with GUI so I have Gnome 3.8.4 which I expected, but how come I have KDE stuff there as well?

  and… I still haven’t figured out how to add shortcuts to the desktop and/or task bar which should really be a context menu option so I’m not sure why Gnome is so un-intuitive in that case.

  Igal

• Well, I know what claim you mean (which was not mine…) As far as google is concerned, I have my own reservations, which I’m not going to talk about.

  To change the subject completely: one day I thought about this. In the past one needed to recruit spies. These days if I were a head on one of these intelligence agencies I would do it much cheaper and more efficient. I would invest (just make a grant) big time in great nice IT startup company. And keep adding $$ in. Have them roll out free services, applications, everything. And information will trickle to me at much lower cost, I only would need to build huge storage center, and apply enormous computing power to process this information. I’m sure at least IBM has similar thoughts about free applications/services (at least that’s what I’ve heard).

  For what it’s worth, those are just abstract thoughts, any coincidence that my thoughts might cause in your mind are pure coincidense, purely on your side, and have nothing do with any real subject, person, etc…

  Putting my pointy hat back on…

  Valeri

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  Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247
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• To Paul and William,

  Did either of you think to crack open your laptop cases and check for embedded key logging hardware on the MB.. it could be in there… that tiny mislabeled capacitor near the USB bus would be a good hiding place… or have you been blindly typing away on those keyboards for several years…? Does the firmware for your wireless card ever overstep its bounds and poke around a bit… perhaps to collect info from the key logger? That same wireless firmware could probably have access to your network without your knowledge… Isn’t it the government that stipulates that the firmware be distributed in binary form only…? And be sure to “mute” the mic on your machine… they’d never be smart enough to use the speakers in reverse to accomplish the same thing :)

  All kidding aside; do either of you audit the source code of your OS
  personally… or blindly trust all RH employees “have your back”?

  When it comes to “security”, don’t we all just, eventually, bury our heads in whichever sand makes us feel safe?

• I should have asked about 70 messages ago… but can you guys change the subject line if you are to talk about these unrelated issues?

• I thought the entire CentOS project was “Open Source”. If that is correct, what attraction would a very successful, and universally loved and appreciated, Open Source project have for a ‘closed source addict’ ?

• I avoid using Wifi. My keyboards are changed frequently (one of the reasons is some are allergic to tea). My home router is an inquisitive Asus AC68U but Wifi is disabled. My trusted firewall is iptables. My multiple backups are significant distances away. My HDDs are on pull-out caddies. I read all the generated daily reports.

  When relatives come, a new name and password are created for Wifi access which does not broadcast its presence. There is no access to the LAN.

  If anyone is serious about security, it is not the keyboards one should worry about but another item that is so common it is always
  ‘overlooked’. No further comment :-)

• Whats your mailing address, I will send you some more tinfoil.

• I do hope you will be able to understand that your lack of knowledge and your free offers of ‘tin foil’ are not really CentOS matters.

• Either is your paranoia

• If I were to hire sysadmin or computer security officer you definitely will be on my short list, much preferred candidate.

  Valeri

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  Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247
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• Enough already. Can you please take this off-list?

  John

• Have you ever heard someone saying “paranoia is on my sysadmin’s job description”? If you don’t have an attitude described by that word you better don’t run severs. Not that I would say they will end up compromised, but the chance of compromise is way higher if you don’t exercise “paranoia” when setting up your server. I bet any sysadmin manual or book has security chapter which stresses it in similar wording. A few I
  learned from did. So, in my book Mr. Always Learning is more suitable as sysadmin than a person of an attitude you expressed. No offense, just think it over, thinking it over may help you one day.

  Just my $0.02

  Valer

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  Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247
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• Thank you. I am flattered. I have never been west of Europe.

  Good security is discretely “poking one’s nose in”, wondering about things and questioning how security might be improved – complacency and
  ‘lack of knowledge’ aren’t really the best attributes …. and tin foil doesn’t really help :-)

• My comment was sincere but was directed at Chris Pimberton, who I thought was really funny.

  I have nothing against Always Learning other than the fact that he hijacked this thread from the original question that I asked…

• I apologize in advance for the subject and length of this reply. I debated just letting things pass without comment. But, security has many levels. And the first level is recognition of the threat.

  Whether we recognize it or not. Whether we agree of disagree with the politics that lie beneath this situation or not; Whether we consider this a non-technical issue or not; By virtue of our employment we are all involuntarily caught up in a global conflict between the agents of extremely powerful states versus the talents, minds and beliefs of principled individuals. For better or for worse the chosen battleground is the software we use and the hardware we run it upon.

  It is my belief that we as a community are not well served by individuals that decry every attempt to highlight the fundamentally terrible positions our governments have placed us in.

  Of course, plausible deniably is the standard MO when a government does something that even their own subject populace would take exception to. That said one must give thought to the reality behind the following well documented controversy that goes back to 1999:

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAKEY

  But more recently we have:

  http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data

  and this:

  http://techcrunch.com/2014/05/13/nsa-docs-detail-efforts-to-collect-data-from-microsofts-skype-skydrive-and-outlook-com/

  This sort of publicity is sort of bad for business, which is really, really starting to bite the U.S. tech giants. So we now have these ‘stand-up and be counted’ responses like the following:

  http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/05/tech/web/microsoft-nsa-snooping/

  http://www.wired.com/2013/12/microsoft-nsa/

  Which are about as trustworthy as . . . well, I cannot think of anything off-hand that I would consider as untrustworthy as the public statements of a corporation gagged by a secret court and suffering economically from the public revelations of that fact.

  After, what we have in the U.S. (and the rest of the AABCNZ / 5-eyes network for that matter) at the moment is a totally out-of-control, irresponsible, and self-righteously belligerent security apparatus that is milking billions of dollars annually out of their populaces. Its leaders and employees have suborned the courts, committed perjury, and repeatedly and egregiously violated the very constitution (where such exist, the UK being a notable exception) that as public officials they are sworn to uphold.

  This consortium has accumulated a vast collection of private data on every present, past, and probably future elected official in the U.S.A.; and quite likely of the rest of the world as well. I am not sure that such capability in the hands of people shown to put institutional interests above the law bodes well for public oversight.

  Of course, maybe suggesting a tinfoil hat for everyone who ponders the implications of all in public this will make all of that unpleasant stuff just go away. When one cannot or will not address the central issue then attack the credibility of the opponent. Call for evidence and then dismiss it out of hand when confronted with it. Old news, shall we say. Never mind that dismissive response begs the question that these thing have happened and continue to happen.

  Personally, I am beginning to wonder just who employs “William Woods”
  . A nice nondescript name with no signature block from an anonymous email address. Maybe he is a tinfoil salesman?

  Anyone who attended the C3 Congress in Berlin this past December was exposed to an awful lot information and revelations from some highly respected privacy advocates. They were also made aware of the fact the various agencies actively monitor and participate in a range of online forums, including technical mailing lists and MMOGs.

  Given CentOS’s importance to the information infrastructure of todays business and scientific communities (about twice as many servers run CentOS than RHEL
  http://constantmayhem.com/ty-stuff/linuxsurvey/2013.html) it would not be surprising to me to discover one or more of said individuals skulking about. And, one has to admit, casting doubt upon and disparaging lines of enquiry into things contrary to their employer’s interest might be among their assigned jobs.

  Not that Mr. Woods is one of these mind you. He could very well be just be a mailing list troll of the everyday garden variety. Or, perhaps, he is a RedHat employee that takes any implied criticism of his employer a little too personally.

  Whatever the case may be it is interesting that:

  1. W. Woods first posted to the mailing list (under that name) this past July.

  2. He has an utter fascination with things to do with SystemD and its detractors. Indeed that was the subject of his first post.

  3. He has never asked, answered or added to a question of a technical nature in such a fashion as to provide a proposed solution or elaborate on a constructive approach to a problem.

  4. The vast majority of his postings can, with the most charitable interpretation, be considered as snide deprecation of people who express opinions that he evidently feels compelled to comment on. Usually having to do with security. And without actually contributing anything in the way of useful information.

  I am just saying, sometimes paranoia is induced by other people’s behaviour, not by any internal mental defect.

• Bravo Mr Byrne. Well expressed.

  …… the first level of GOOD SECURITY is recognition of the threat.

  I have always been convinced Windoze 95 was designed to be invaded by
  ‘approved’ sources.

  I remember my often sad, frustrating days with bug-filled Windoze 95 and
  98 (never went pass these) and seeing the existence of the ‘history’
  files that users could not view because the M$ software prevented all user scrutiny of these files and associated directories on the user’s own computer.

  I was also curious why the instant the computer connected with ‘The Internet’, Micro$oft would automatically start recording, on the user’s own computer, all details of that Internet connection and, I assume, the traffic too. However M$ deliberately prevented users viewing that material in Windoze.

  Remember Word98, Excel98 etc. (I think it was) and the secret embedding of the user’s M$ data (Windows serial number etc.) in those files ?

  When I installed Windoze 8 on a news reporter’s girl friend’s computer, M$ wanted, yes it insisted, on her email address, her gender, the area she lived, her email address and I can’t remember if M$ also demanded her date of birth. As part of the Windoze registration process M$ sent her an email to confirm the accuracy of her email address.

  Don’t forget M$, as part of the Windoze registration, records the serial number of the network card, the hard disk, the motherboard etc. etc.

  Conversely CentOS does none of that …. yet. Knowing a wee bit about Uncle Sam, it is going to be inevitable that the USA government pressurises RedHat to provide backdoor access. It is not ‘never’ but simply when if they haven’t already tried.

  Ebay registration in Holland, Europe, insists on a telephone number which it calls to give the new user an acceptance code to type-in. Seems an email address is not sufficient information.

  Google is the biggest spying operation in the world, excluding the USA
  government (military and security community).

  Despite all the spying the USA government ignored the Islamic State threat in the so-called ‘Middle East’ for almost a year …. obviously western people are more interesting to spy on than genuine terrorists murdering civilians every day of the week. Randy suggestions made by teenagers to each other are much more important to the ever-listening USA government than tackling active terrorists.

  Every router has a backdoor or ‘technical support’ access. The existence is not always mentioned in manuals. Every USA virus checker allows USA
  government viruses through.

  Yes, the secret organisations are protecting us against 911 but when the CIA knew about it in advance from a conversion in the Bahamas made by a drunk in a bar (dismissed at the time by the USA) and a telephone call from a prisoner in a German jail (don’t know the USA’s inaction excuse after receiving that tip-off), one wonders how efficient they really are.

  Snowden’s material showed the USA military murdering civilians (the video from the helicopter and the machine gunning without cause of the civilians). No wonder the USA will not participate in the International Criminal Court in Den Haag, Nederland.

  I am not a terrorist and I do object to the UK government letting the USA and Google et al snop on UK residents. The UK is the USA’s biggest external (outside the USA) spying base/processing centre in the world.

  Yes catch the really bad people but stop storing enormous amounts of personal data on the innocent people.

  Ever wondered why HDDs are so cheap ? Its because the USA government buys them by the factory load ! What for ? Recording all your personal data of course.

  Have a nice day people and wonder how many times in a single day is Uncle Sam and affiliates storing new personal data on you and your family. Hey Uncle Sam knows more about you than you know about yourself.

  almost impossible because one normally never ever knows.

• And this little soap box has what to do with CentOS ?